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Sharon G
Recognized Contributor
Posts: 256
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| 05/10/2008 7:00 AM |
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There is no answer to the "why" for me. I have decided that I won't know until I can ask Jesus in heaven.
Here is a verse of encouragement.
"I believe that I shall see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong, and let your heart take courage; wait for the Lord!"
Psalm 27:13-14
Sharon |
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Sharon G
Mother to two angels - Drew (S/B 12-07) & Baby G (M/C 09-08) |
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Nele Rogers
Major Participant
Posts: 57
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| 05/10/2008 8:38 AM |
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Karin,
I am so glad you are on this board. I had a good friend that lived in the same town as me that is Austrailian. She and her family moved back to Austrailia several years ago now and we've lost touch--but as I read your posts I hear her accent in your words and it makes me smile.
As to the question "Why". I think we can kill ourselves asking the question "why?" There is no answer to it. Even if we know a concrete answer to "why" like genetic, chromosomal, or some other issue...it doesn't answer the question "Why would God let this happen to us, to our precious child?"
We had a very tragic death of the wife of a friend of ours that we went to sunday school and church with several years ago. The man that was a co-leader (of the sunday school class) with his wife was giving the sunday school lesson the week after our friend's funeral. I'll never forget his topic. He taught us that although we want to ask "why?" (and never get a complete answer), the better question in this tragic situation is "How?" "How can we make a difference because of this terrible, awful, gut-wrenching tragedy?"
It's a question I think about everyday now. I know that God has a plan/purpose for me (and all of you.) I don't know what that is. And right now, I don't have to be happy about it. In fact, I am quite pissed off about it. And God is OK with that too. He gives us free will because he wants us to choose and think for ourselves. I hope I can figure out the answer to "How" in this life...and maybe get to the point where "why" doesn't even come to mind.
My Matthew mattered, your Kathleen mattered. They made a difference in the time that they were within us and will always be a part of our families and our lives. That is what matters.
Hoping you'll get through this weekend (yet another hurdle to "get over")
With you in spirit,
Nele
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Karin Knapp
Recognized Participant
Posts: 132
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| 05/10/2008 4:37 PM |
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I completely agree that we won't know the answer to "why". That is the conclusion I have reached too. Maybe that is why it bothers me when people say "God has a reason", "God has a plan with it", "God must have wanted her". It sounds like they have the answer all figured out... I do believe that God allowed it (He can prevent anything and do anything), but I just don't know if He actually did it. It just doesn't sound like my loving God to me. So does it bother any of you when people say things like that? And if so, how do you respond?
I have asked "why" in a medical perspective, but not as a 'spiritual' question. That may sound a bit strange, but true... Maybe I will later. I don't know. But it seems everyone wants to answer a question I haven't asked.
What I do know is that no matter the reason, this can be used for good. We don't choose what happens to us, but we do choose what we do with it.
My heart goes out to all of you who have no living children and are faced with Mother's Day. It must be one of the hardest days of the year. I pray people will be thoughtful around you. I do want to say though that although you do not have a child to hold on this earth, you are still mothers! No matter how brief your time was with your child, the bond between you and the child was complete. You are not unfinished mothers, your love runs too deep for that. I am not trying to make anyone feel better on this painful day, but I pray that you will allow yourself to see yourselves as mothers. You may have unfinished business because you will never see your child mature, but you are not an unfinished mother. I hope that makes sense, and doesn't hurt you but encourage you.
I read this poem yesterday that someone posted on a pregnancy loss forum. I wanted to share it. I still haven't fully understood it all, but it does touch me deeply.
"What Makes a Mother? I thought of you and closed my eyes And prayed to God today I asked 'What makes a Mother?' And I know I heard him say. 'A Mother has a baby' This we know is true 'But God can you be a Mother, when your baby is not with you?' 'Yes, you can,' He replied with confidence in his voice 'I give many women babies, when they leave is not their choice. Some I send for a lifetime, and others for the day. And some I send to feel your womb, but there's no need to stay.' 'I just don't understand this God I want my baby to be here.' He took a deep breath and cleared his throat, and then I saw the tear. 'I wish I could show you what your child is doing today. If you could see your child's smile, with all the other children and sayﾅ 'We go to Earth to learn our lessons, of love and life and fear. My Mommy loved me oh so much, I got to come straight here. I feel so lucky to have a Mom, who had so much love for me. I learned my lessons very quickly, My Mommy set me free. I miss my Mommy oh so much, but I visit her every day. When she goes to sleep, on her pillow's were I lay I stroke her hair and kiss her cheek and whisper in her ear. ﾑMommy don't be sad today, I'm your baby and I'm here.'' 'So you see my dear sweet ones, your children are okay. Your babies are born here in My home, and this is where they'll stay. They'll wait for you with Me, until your lesson's through. and on the day that you come home they'll be at the gate for you. So now you see what makes a Mother, it's the feeling in your heart. It's the love you had so much of right from the very start Though some on Earth may not realise, you are a Mother until their time is done. they'll be up here with Me one day and know that you are the best one!' Written by: Jennifer Wasik"
Sharon, you made me smile when you said you can read my accent :) If I ever use the phrase 'fall pregnant' please know it is the Australian way of saying it which I have picked up. I am not actually Australian. I am originally from Denmark. My husband is American. We are considering maybe moving back to the states in about a year. Things have changed since we had a son and we miss all the family traditions. Plus I am truly considering homeschooling, and Australians are not very open to it and you won't find much support. It is hard to decide where to live and we are praying a lot about it.
Thinking of you all this weekend. May God be your comfort and strenght.
Love,
Karin |
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Lindsey Garvin
Regular Participant
Posts: 31
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| 05/10/2008 5:40 PM |
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Karin- Thanks for the poem. It was beautiful. It does bother me when everyone thinks that they know the exact reason why our child died and they don't. I just wish that I could have had a better hospital and doctor that knew what they were doing and maybe by son would be here today. I know that in Illinois the doctors and hospitals have there laws of what they supposedly have to do, but I think that they should have to do everything possible to save someone, not second guess everything. I wish everyone a Happy Mother's Day!
Lindsey Garvin
Hunter (2)- Here on Earth
Grace Aubrey and Jacob Thomas (February 7, 2008) |
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Karin Knapp
Recognized Participant
Posts: 132
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| 05/10/2008 8:00 PM |
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Lindsey, I feel you on the whole doctor/hospital situation. I am so frustrated. In spite of my bleeding and being in high risk, I still only saw trainees! And I saw a different one every time because of a silly public system where you get to see whoever is available next. Each one would have different and conflicting opinions. Not having the consistency was so hard. Not having one good doctor who knew your whole medical story was so hard. It has crossed my mind many times that if only I had gone to see a specialist, my baby would still be here today. I blame myself for that. But it is so hard to know what to do. Who and when to trust.
It sounds like I might get to see actual doctors if I get pregnant again, but who knows... It still won't be the same every time. If I experience any complications again, I will spend the money and go see a specialist. I just have to for my own peace of mind.
When I broke my water and went into labour at 19 weeks I thought maybe they would be able to stop labour, but I was told they can't. That confuses me. I thought normally they can. But maybe my labour was too far progressed, I don't know. So many unanswered questions.
Where are the good, caring doctors? I pray that God will lead me to one should it ever be necessary again.
Blessings to all.
Karin |
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Lisa Day
Recognized Participant
Posts: 154
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| 05/12/2008 9:01 PM |
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Karin,
I am hearing you!!! First I must warn that I am still under the remnants of general anesthesia from yesterday, so I may sound strange.
I hear you...I struggle at times with the same things. I have really struggled with God's part in this. I can only say that the bible says that God is good and that the enemy comes to kill, steal and destroy (not God). God promises that He will redeem us. I can't say that I understand exactly, but I believe that the only chance I have at sanity is to admit if I am angry at God (when I know I am...that can be the difficult thing...realizing I am) and to forgive Him and to believe that He loves me and that eventually He will redeem this horrible situation. I pray you find your peace with this. Sadly I have come to realize that no matter what I do, or don't do...feel or don't feel...Josiah isn't coming back. I can get so angry about that, but being angry is only hurting my family...so I have to accept. I admit...IT REALLY STINKS, though!!!!
I am so sorry that any of you reading this know what that is like!
If you don't mind I thought I would like to share about my mother's day. I don't want to take up too much of your forum, so I am starting a new one called "repeat d&c on Mothers Day".
Love to all and know how grateful I am for each of you!
Lisa |
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Lisa Day
Recognized Participant
Posts: 154
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| 05/12/2008 9:09 PM |
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Opps, I just responded to the last forum from Karin on page one. I didn't even know there was a page two. Sorry if you are wondering why I don't make sense! I have very limited time as I am supposed to be in bed, not on the computer...so I will have to read the other ones tomorrow!
Lisa |
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Lisa Day
Recognized Participant
Posts: 154
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| 05/12/2008 11:45 PM |
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Okay,
I can't stand to be in bed right now! I have stayed on here for a while now. After reading all of the newresponses, it sounds as if I wasn't too far off with my response. Doctors are people. I often find myself really frustrated with mine, but then I realize that I have no idea how hard and probably scary it can be for them at times. I can't imagine the weight of the burden that there may have been something different I could have done and my patients baby would still be alive. Oh,,,don't get me wrong, I have had run in after run in with docotrs that don't have it together. I used to have such resentment for them, now it has to be pity.
Also Karin , I homeschool! I have for 8 years now. If you are ever needing any advice I may have some to share. It is a wonderful (and very intense) way of life. I am grateful for every day of it, though. Just let me know if that is ever something I can help with. I am sorry it is not accepted where you are. In Texas it is a big thing. We are members of great groups. It is one of the very best states to support it. California is a different story right now, though. They are having to fight a big fight.
Be blessed,
Lisa |
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Karin Knapp
Recognized Participant
Posts: 132
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| 05/13/2008 12:08 AM |
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I just wish my last doctor would at least have said he was sorry for my loss. He just seemed so clinical and it really upset me. I really, really don't know what to do next time around (if there is one) when it comes to doctors. I just pray that I will know when the time comes. To have a good doctor and consistency would just be so important.
I got to share about my experience last night at bible study. We were talking about how the first believers in Acts helped eachother in practical and financial ways, and then I asked if they also might have helped eachother emotionally. I then got to share how I really just want people to talk to me and ask me stuff instead of avoiding the subject and people were so glad I shared! They said it helped them a lot. They thought it would hurt me more if they asked about it... I knew some thought that way. I told them I'd wish I could walk around with a big sign around my neck saying: "Just talk to me! Ask me anything!" Anyway, it was very well received and they were so glad I shared. I was afraid to hurt anyone and make them feel bad, but I don't think that happened. I hope they all feel a bit more educated now on grief... They ask if a grief support group in church would help. Yes, but the group has to consist of people who have either experienced loss or is very educated on the subject. Anyway, it was a good night and just wanted to share.
Hope everyone is well - as well as can be.
God bless!
Karin |
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Lisa Day
Recognized Participant
Posts: 154
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| 05/13/2008 1:23 AM |
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Karin,
You are so correct! On both counts! My ultrasound doctor was so "businesslike" that I have asked not to ever have to go back there again. They handled things very poorly in my opinion. They showed me the sono, obvious with no movement and the tech ruched out to go get him, didn't return for around 10 minutres (only then to retriev my children out of the room, I was alone with them and desperately trying to keep them from ssing me panic) and then left me alone for another 5 to 10 minutes again, only for my doctor to come in and scare me further when I said "you all are scaring me" and he just calmly said "I know". Then he was just businesslike when he announced "it is over". He then semi freaked as I became hysterical and began screaming "no!". I don't think I could ever go back there again. Then they left me alone in a room for a great deal of time and refused to call my husband for me. So when I finally gathered the strength to do so, all he thought was that it was my 4 year old and she must have done something really bad for me to have had her call him in such hysterics. When he finally realized it was me, I was blessed that he didn't have a wreck. It was an awful experience!
Also, I am so ignored by all of my so called "friends" from church or scouts (except a precious few) (and they have blown me away with kindness). I am even considering changing churches at this point because I feel so hurt by some of the leadership.
I know you are all the way around the world, but so many of the women on here seem to be from Texas. Maybe we can do more than our chats on line soon.
I am so glad that your revealing to others that it is okay to talk helped. I might give it a try!
Be blessed,
Lisa |
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Karin Knapp
Recognized Participant
Posts: 132
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| 05/16/2008 8:10 PM |
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Some day I feel like I have everything under control, like I am getting better and my emotions are stabile - and then some days I have a big setback? Does anyone else experience that?? It definitely feels like it is two steps forward and one back...
Today I had to do my shift at the local toy library. Every second lady that walked in the door was pregnant! Including the one I did the shift with. She asked me about children and I choose to tell her that we lost one recently to which she replied "well, that happens".
When I am going to stop envying other pregnant women? And when am I going to be able to ignore heartless comments?
Okay, just had to vent...
Hope everyone is doing okay.
Karin |
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Sharon G
Recognized Contributor
Posts: 256
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| 05/17/2008 6:11 AM |
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I think when others make mean comments it is either because they have never experienced loss or they are still hurting from their own loss and denying it. Either way I feel sorry for them because they obviously don't know how to empathize with someone.
My husband and I are friends with a couple that are due with their first baby in a month. Sometimes I have no problem being around it and then there are other times when I just avoid her.
It is normal to feel this way. I don't think it is jealousy. It is just sadness that I lost my chance.
I continue to thank God for his future blessings and that I will be with my son for eternity.
Sharon |
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Sharon G
Mother to two angels - Drew (S/B 12-07) & Baby G (M/C 09-08) |
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Nele Rogers
Major Participant
Posts: 57
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| 05/17/2008 6:40 AM |
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Karin,
I think the loss of control is one of the hardest things in all of this. Or I guess the realization that we never really had control in the first place.
I am right there with you about the pregnant women (and small babies.) I have to adjust my thoughts a thousand times a day just to get through the day. Everytime I see a pregnant woman, or a baby or baby clothes or a commercial for strollers or get a parenting magazine in the mail or I catch sight of my slender body in the mirror....all of these things make me remember my loss and then I have to mentally turn it off and think of something else or I would be breaking down time after time every day.
I guess it's progress that I can do that instead of becoming a tear-stained mass of emotions every day. I do allow myself to cry but I can influence when and where it happens now to some extent.
As far as the heartless comments....I've decided that it's not helping other people to let them get away with it, otherwise they will never know the pain and angst that they cause others. When I get a thoughtless (although many times I think they are well-meaning) that makes my stomach clench when I hear it--I have started saying "You know, comments like that are not very helpful for me right now. I lost a child that I cared for deeply, and his life mattered." Period. It may make them feel a little awkward but I guarantee that they will think first before making another comment like that. Plus, I feel that I stood up for my child who did matter and whose death wasn't one of those things that "just happens."
Perhaps this is a little harsh and I am normally one of the nicest people you will meet. But this is where I am at right now and it feels right. Maybe in a few months I will feel differently....I'll keep you posted.
I fervently believe that we shouldn't let others make us feel bad about this tragic time in our lives, even if they are doing it inadvertently. I can't think of another example where I would let someone cause harm to someone (even inadvertantly) and not call them on it.
What do all of you think?
Nele |
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Lisa Day
Recognized Participant
Posts: 154
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| 05/18/2008 10:34 PM |
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Karin,
I had one of those days yesterday that I could have sworn that the pain in my heart would actually kill me. Today, I was much better! I think God and time will help! In case you need some one to say this to you again, as I often do...I am so very sorry that this has happened...but please know that we are here with you!
With love,
Lisa |
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Karin Knapp
Recognized Participant
Posts: 132
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| 05/19/2008 4:49 AM |
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Nele, I think you are very, very brave for expressing your thoughts and feelings to people who make insensitive comments. I wish I could be more like you, but I have always had a fear of hurting or offending anyone. I couldn't imagine expressing my hurt to the lady at the toy library whom I had to work with for 1 1/2 hour with fear of it becoming a very awkward 1 1/2 hour. You are so right though that people should know that those comments do more harm than good. If we don't educate outsiders, they will never get educated. Even though I am a rather shy person, sometimes I wish to stand up in front of the whole church and preach a sermon on grief. Doubt I will ever find the courage though. For now I'll stick to doing it in front of my bible group :)
Lisa, thanks! It is so good to know there is a place like this where we can come and get support and give support. Both are very fulfilling in the midst of tragedy.
Blessings,
Karin |
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Erin Cummins
Member
Posts: 1
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| 05/19/2008 9:42 AM |
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 Hi . I lost my baby girl Thursday 5/15/08...due date was 9/6/08. I am very pissed at God. My husband and I went thru IVF to get this angel and he took it away. I am devastated, sad, angry, worried about the future. Im 37...to be 38 in August. no children. my time is running out. what to I do where do I go...im too angry with God to turn to him...I just don't believe anymore. erin |
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Karin Knapp
Recognized Participant
Posts: 132
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| 05/19/2008 3:48 PM |
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Erin, I am so very, very sorry for your loss! I understand why you are angry. I don't think anyone goes through such a loss and not be angry in some way or other. And it is okay to be angry with God. Tell Him that you are. I don't believe though that God took away your little baby, but that is my personal belief (although I am not alone). I simply just think that we live in a fallen world where bad stuff happens to everyone. Even some of the most righteous people in the bible experienced infertility.
I know I can't tell you anything that will make it all better. You have lost a precious baby, and dreams and plans and anticipated joy. All I can tell you is that you are not alone, we are here for you. God is too when you are ready for Him...
I understand your whole age concern. I am 34 and also feel like time is running out.
Can I ask what happened?
I know it can be hard to hope and believe. I will do so for you.
Love and God bless,
your sister in Christ
Karin |
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Lisa Day
Recognized Participant
Posts: 154
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| 05/19/2008 4:50 PM |
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Erin,
I am extremely sorry!
We lost our son, Josiah, on April 11th. His due date was 9-7-08. I have been tracking what would have been his progress, so I can relate to the development of your precious angel was when this happened.
I am turning 38 in August as well. I have other health problems that may keep us from carrying to term, so I can understand that worry and fear of the future. Right now...try to stay in the present (as hard as that might be!), though. You will know when the time is right for you to try again, and we will be here for you then, as well. For now...you have a major process to go through...just surviving!!!
I know from my own that there are really no words that can magically take your pain away. I also know what it means to be angry with God. I was for a long while (or so it felt). No one can really convince you other wise. It is a personal walk that I really feel He understands. I was afraid that because of my anger I would lose my salvation...UNTRUE!!! I pray for your sake that you will forgive Him, though...because His loving arms can really help to ease your pain. However...I understand just where you are at!
Just know that your feelings are legitimate and that as impossible as it may ever seem (and I speak from experience) you will begin to have a release of your pain in time and that you will eventually start to see the light of day again. It will take time and like I said...for me...I had to first get right with God (a seriously difficult task). Once I was able to release the anger I felt towards the Lord, I started to heal. Don't get me wrong...I still have my bad days...but they become a little more bearable as time goes on. Again...I am just so very, very sorry!!!
Be patient with yourself right now. You will have an array of emotions. Remember that not only have you experienced what I feel has to be one of the very hardest experiences a person can go through...your hormones will not make this easy, either.
I feel for the preparations you have just gone through or are beginning...we are in the process of building a memorial grave garden for our baby. As comforting as it can be...it is very difficult, too. My heart goes out to you!
How is your husband handling this? Know that it is important to hang on to one another. I have a very sweet and caring husband, but we are still working out the different ways that men and women handle this type of intense grief. It is usually a shock to both, as to what each other needs. They usually have no idea how to help although they desperately want to.
Also...if you want to make sure that others see your story, you may consider posting a new forum. I personally just check in and read the ones that are new to stay abreast of what is happening, but a new forum may make it more personal for you, or so it did for me! There is nothing wrong with posting here, though. I am so glad you let us know you are there. We are truly here for you!!!!!!!!!!
You are in my prayers!
With love and understanding,
Lisa |
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Lisa Day
Recognized Participant
Posts: 154
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| 05/27/2008 12:52 AM |
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Karin,
Just read on Brandy Smith's forum that you had a bad day today and wanted to say...I feel for you!!! And...I am sorry that there have to be "bad days" like that.
I don't know what your day consisted of, but I absolutely understand how a "bad day" feels!!! I had one yesterday, in fact. Then, today, I was much better (and sane again). I too think that it is partial hormones, but it is also just missing Josiah (and feeling all alone)!
I am embarrassed to admit this, but...I was so "messed up" yesterday that I sincerely threatened to divorce my husband (not that I would have today...absolutely not...but I was just insane with pain and grief and frustration with the whole world).
My point is that you are not alone! Hang in there!!! I am still here reading, so please know that you have someone to "vent" to!
With love and appreciation of how you feel,
Lisa Day |
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Karin Knapp
Recognized Participant
Posts: 132
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| 05/27/2008 3:30 AM |
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Lisa, thanks for your post. It is good to know I am not alone. To know I am not the only one with bad days makes me feel more sane when I feel insane. I read your post to Brandy too. I agree that as time passes by it seems the hard moments slam you more and just show up unexpected. I think I am really feeling down because I have my AF and I don't want my AF, I want to be pregnant! So I both miss Kathleen terribly as well as longing desperately to be pregnant again. I keep hearing that small voice today saying 'you will never get pregnant again and have another child'. I am trying not to listen, but just not feeling very positive. I really wish I could be content and I am working on it. I am sure tomorrow will be better...
Friday was hard too because our guest speaker at church started talking about the beauty of birth and related it to his message. I had to run all the multimedia on this very big night (it was our 4th birthday party) and was doing fine until he started talking! Now there was a slam!!! It was a hard night to make it through and of course I couldn't run off or hide from people. I did get a few good hugs but it was still so very hard.
I have been crying so much today and now have an awful headache, that doesn't help either.
Thanks again for your post. I appreciate it!!!
God bless,
Karin |
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Lisa Day
Recognized Participant
Posts: 154
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| 05/27/2008 10:29 PM |
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Karin,
Oh I am so sorry!!! That was a big slam! Isn't it interesting how those things happen when we can't run and hide? I wonder if God is trying to drop something in our laps, that otherwise we would run from? I mean...that has happened to me where I have had to endure something and I never asked God what He might be trying to convey in it. I just knew that it was hard, and wished I could escape! It is weird for me...sometimes I can hear something like that or see a pregnant woman, or hear a "baby" song and I am fine. Other times I feel the plunge of the knife that I am sure will be the end of me, yet I am still here.
I am actually envious that you have a church that is there for you, though. I thought we had a great church, until we lost Josiah. Now I don't know if I can even go back. I have been there once since we lost him (mainly because of my physical trials, but now because I feel so abandoned by people I thought would be there for us). We have been loyal to others, or so I hope...but left to our selves to handle everything we have been through in this. No flowers, no meals, and no real concern (or so it feels), even when we have disappeared for so long now. We always went, and served, before.
Our worship leader really hurt us specifically pertaining to Josiah and it is sad for I respected him a great deal until this. Now I don't think I will ever be able to again. I pray God shows us what to do. I don't want to leave on account of taking offense, but how do you put your heart and soul into a place where you feel that all of the preaching about reaching out to others is a "talk it, but don't walk it" message. Sorry to unload on you..but I needed to share that with someone...hope you don't mind.
Please forgive me for going on so long, I was really hoping to keep this short, but I wanted to comment on what you said about that small voice that is tormenting you about your not becoming pregnant again. I know that voice! I believe it is the voice of the enemy...NOT God!!! By personal experience I truly believe that!!! I have heard that voice tell me so many lies that I have eagerly listened to over the years... however, he is such a liar!!! I can look back now and see what was true all along and it wasn't what he said. I absolutely believe that God can use all of this, in all of our lives, and turn it around, if we let Him.
I know it sounds cliche, but I am reminded of Job right now. I must admit, I have struggled with that story for years, so I feel this must be straight from God. Anyway, Job lost everything, but he got back twice as much as he lost. I struggled with it because I thought it cruel of God to let him hurt like that in the first place. I know now that there was much more to it than the immediate pain Job felt...God had a greater reward for him than what we see here on earth. He honored him in heaven for his loyalty, as well as on earth. Am I making any sense? Sorry, if not!
Anyway, I feel God has given me this insight to share with you (although I am listening to it right now as well)...He is the Redeemer!!! I believe you will see His glory and goodness in time! As difficult as I know it can be, I believe that God is showing us both to try to shut out the words the enemy is speaking to our minds and to open our hearts up to what God has for us instead. Sorry to preach...I promise...this feels as if it is coming straight from God, not from me!!!. I guess I am needing to hear it, myself, though!
I, too, am having a really rough day (season) here, but it is mainly my health (at least today). I feel as if I have been so sick since I first found out I was pregnant. I go from one ailment to another and back again. I was pretty healthy before all of this started, or so I thought, but not anymore. I am typically the "energizer bunny"...now I am hardly able to take care of the basics (my husband helps more than he should have to, for sure). Again...as I said above...He is the Redeemer...I need to try to focus on that, don't I? It is hard, I am just starting to dip my toes in His river of love again. I want to dive in and swim...but I am taking my time to wade in slowly. Another reason I know the above was His and not mine.
I hope you don't mind but I am sending you a really big hug, so that you know that you are loved by those who understand you and I am also sending you a gentle cloth to wipe away your tears!
Do you feel them? I really hope so!!!
He will do the same, when we let Him!
Sorry for taking so much time (and space)...
Your sister in Christ,
Lisa |
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Karin Knapp
Recognized Participant
Posts: 132
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| 05/27/2008 11:29 PM |
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Lisa, thanks so much for your post and your hug and gentle cloth to wipe away my tears! I do feel the love and care!
I am so much better today which is good because my son has been quite challenging, refused to eat both at breakfast and lunch (although he choose to eat it all a couple of hours later) and has whined a lot. I think God knew I needed to have a bad day yesterday so I could have a better day today. I know that people here have prayed for me too and I believe God answered them! I had a really good nights rest which I haven't had in a long time. I didn't wake up once and that is a miracle! I am feeling quite refreshed.
It is true that often when we want to run, God has put us in circumstances where we can't, cause we shouldn't. I wanted to run away that night at church and just be alone with my tears, but I know that is not how God wants the body of Christ to work.
I am so sorry you feel let down by your church. Of course I don't mind you sharing! Have you shared with anyone at church though? I am wondering if you choose to tell just one person, if the message would get out. My church has been absolutely amazing - just like a church should be in circumstances like this. We got more meals than we could keep in the fridge, so many flowers and cards, they paid for the funeral expenses (a lot was free services but not all), put on a gathering for us after the funeral, have watched our son so we could get time to ourselves, given me a certificate for a massage, and have collected enough money that I can get the house fully cleaned 5 times. It blows my mind and I am very proud of our church. The practical support could not be any better! However my church is not able to provide any emotional support. There is no one there who has gone through similar experience (guess someone has to be first) and I had to realize that I needed to find that support elsewhere and be okay with it. People simply just can't relate to our loss and grief unless they have been down that same road or unless they are very well educated (like counselors).
I understand why you are hurt by the church and struggle to know what to do now. May I at least encourage you to tell someone - either way they need to know! Maybe the Lord will bring healing into the situation and one day you will be able to lead a grief support group. I don't know... I just know all things are possible with Christ.
It is a good thing to remind ourselves of Job! In the past when I thought of the story I used to think how awful it was. I never paid much attention to the ending!!! How silly is that? The ending is what is really important! God did reward Job on earth as well in heaven, he got so much more back than he lost. I used to think it was a depressing story but now I think it is uplifting and encouraging.
Yes, He is our Redeemer!
I am sorry your health hasn't been good. I assume you have seen doctors? I know that grief can do a lot to our bodies, also physically. It can lower our immune system. I will pray for healing!
Your sister in Christ,
Karin |
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Lisa Day
Recognized Participant
Posts: 154
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| 05/29/2008 5:46 AM |
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Karin,
Thanks so much!! I got a call yesterday from the only lady who has acted as she cares (and it is her job at church, though) to see why we haven't been there in so long. I didn't share my feelings with her, as I didn't want to be rude and I just didn't know what to say. She had no idea we were going through so much (health wise) and is going to tell our pastor. She said she thought we were just "coping" and hadn't been going. It is hard though, because our pastor now is also a family friend. We knew his family for years before they became our pastor. He preaches weekly on how we need to check on each other and be there for each other...and he hasn't called to see why we haven't been there once.
When we went there the one time since I lost Josiah, I spent around 20 minutes consoling his wife of the loss of her grand-mother-in-law, (which I was happy to be there for her, really), before she even asked if we were okay. Then the subject was dropped, quickly. No-one knows what to say...so they just don't say anything.
What also hurts is that we had shared that we had to have a repeat d&c on mother's day and that I had to go back to the hospital that week with our worship leader's wife (on their voice mail), but no one ever relayed the message to the church. The hard part is that they live on our street and have never even dropped by or called to see if we are alright. She has lost a baby at the same age Josiah was (even though she successfully delivered the her other two...they were triplets) and knows that this has hurt us deeply.
I need to just forgive, though. I know I do! I am not so hurt by her...she is a very busy lady and is very sweet. It is her very insensitive husband that hurt me the most. He had promised to put a piece of music together for me, after I shared the special song I wrote for Josiah with him, so that I could sing it at Josiah's service. He promised to have the CD to us that afternoon. That was the week after we delivered him. He never brought it by or even called. When I saw him at church weeks later...I had to approach him and ask if I had somehow missed it. He said no, he got busy, and never said sorry. It hurt so much. He knew we were waiting on that music to bury him and he blew us off and never acted as he cared. I still don't have it and am hoping I can find a way to get it put together before our service (which has been postponed for many reasons). He used to be our pastor, before our new one took over, and he gives awesome messages. I have always spoken very well of him and have always cared what is going on with them. Now I am uncertain if I can even speak to him. I really need God's help on this one.
No, I don't know what to do. I don't think he would really care if I did share with him how hurt we were. As far as the church itself goes...they don't know what to do, I suppose. I am very glad that your church was there for you all! It helped me to hear what they did for you (and makes me realize that I am not selfish to have wanted more). I would not have expected anything like what you got (although I would not have minded that)...but just maybe a call or two and some meals would have been appreciated. I am glad that I found MEND or I may have gone crazy without any support.
We did get so support from my son's scout troop (non-emotional, though...just a few meals and such), and we were very grateful for it. It mostly came from people we would not have expected it to come from, though (a total stranger who had just joined the troop did the most for us). Isn't that funny? Some people I have known for years haven't even acknowledged our loss. I am not mad...just a little surprised. My family and friends did the same. I have 3 brother in laws and not one of them has even said sorry (only one has even acknowledged that I was pregnant)...or my own dad or father-in-law...(although I know his heart and I know he cares). People can be very different.
Anyway...again I have gone on too long. Thanks for your kind words. I pray you have a much better day in every way, today. Thank you for being there! After writing all of this down, I have to admit, I am feeling a bit hurt by those I thought would be here for us. I need to let God cleanse my heart of feeling that way, though. Forgiveness is the key!!!
Your sister-in-Christ,
Lisa |
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Karin Knapp
Recognized Participant
Posts: 132
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| 05/31/2008 2:23 AM |
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Lisa, I am so sorry for what you are going through with your church and even your family. How your loss hasn't been recognized and the care hasn't been present. I understand why you feel hurt, I would. I also understand it must be hard to know what to do. I wish I could give you the magic answer, but I really don't know... I guess only God does. Whether or not you do need to confront someone, or simply just forgive and move on, or maybe even more on to another church. I don't usually encourage changing churches, but if a church in no means practice what they preach and it can't be changed, then maybe it isn't the right church to support and be a part off. I really don't know. Yes, there has to be forgiveness, but if there also has to be action, I don't know... I so feel for you in this situation.
Again, I am so very thankful for all the practical help we have gotten from our church, but it still upsets me at times that there has been no emotional support. I still do talk to my friends at church but I feel a mile apart from them. They don't ask how I am doing, and if I do bring up my loss, the subject gets changed quickly. On Friday I mentioned something to a friend about my loss and she just said "oh, well you will get pregnant again". That doesn't acknowledge my loss and the pain I am feeling right now, and it isn't very helpful when right now I feel like it will never happen again and I am feeling devastated about that. I don't expect anyone at church to fully understand what I am going through - you have to have been there to understand, but I struggle with the fact that no one just asks how I am doing and then just listen.
Having all of you on this site is such a help, but what I wouldn't give for a friend in person who knows what I am going through but also is a believer.
My thoughts and prayers are with you!
Love,
Karin |
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Karin Knapp
Recognized Participant
Posts: 132
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| 06/04/2008 9:28 PM |
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I hope everyone is doing okay.
I was so hoping someone could relate and explain what is going on in my mind... Every time some one says "everything happens for a reason" I feel my blood boiling, but I don't know why, so I don't know how to respond to people.
All I know is it makes me want to ask more questions, like what is the reason then and who caused it?
Anyway, if anyone else feels the same about that expression, can you please help me out here and help me understand myself better. Maybe there is nothing wrong with the statement, maybe it is just me, and then maybe you can explain the statement and help me accept it.
I feel so frustrated about it cause I hear it all the time and I want resolvement in this area.
Otherwise I am doing okay at the moment :) I was in a black hole last week and thought I would never get out of it, particularly without help, but somehow things got better.
God bless!
Karin |
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Karin Knapp
Recognized Participant
Posts: 132
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| 06/23/2008 9:06 PM |
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I went to a women's conference this past weekend. It was called 'an encounter with the King'. That was one of the hardest things I have ever done... I knew I had to go though. It was also clear that the enemy didn't want me to go. The days before the conference I had a really bad cold, but I was still determined that I was going. The day before the conference I was feeling physically better, but then I started just not feeling like going - emotionally. I knew it was going to be a hard weekend and I was scared...
Why? Because as soon as I get into God's presence I just break down crying. Saying my 'everyday' prayers is no problem, but getting deep with God is. I just don't know what to say to Him and instead I just end up crying. So I knew there would be a lot of crying and I am so tired of crying in front of other people, particularly when I know they can't relate. I used to always be able to hold back my tears in front of others, but with the pain I experience now, I just can't! I know it isn't healthy to hold back either. I know tears are healing but they are also draining. And again, I keep thinking everyone is judging my tears and thinking I need to get my act together.
So I knew I had to go - to get back into God's presence and also to put myself in the presence of others. I needed healing in both areas. The talks were good, but they weren't the reason I went.
6 other women from my church went, including my friend whom changed the subject even though I told her I really have a need to talk about Kathleen. God did bring healing to our relationship and I am so thankful. I had an opportunity to ask her if she was uncomfortable talking about it and it turns out she is 11 weeks pregnant which explains a lot. We had a really good talk. I also had good talks with the other women. Being I come from a small church we all know eachother. We talked and hugged and cried a lot.
I don’t think I have ever cried so much in my whole life. I honestly didn’t think our bodies could contain this many tears! Every time I thought I was done crying, something would happen or be said, and the tears returned.
I did things I have never done before. One of course would be allowing myself to cry all I needed to – in front of others. I also went up front for prayer which I normally don’t. I allowed God to touch me and I fell over for the first time… The lady who prayed for me prayed that my mourning would be replaced with joy – and she didn’t know me. There was also a session with Roma Waterman singing and she invited people to come up front and just lay and absorb, and I did! She didn’t really sing her songs but did more prophetic singing and just sang bible verses and uplifting words. God’s presence was truly there and it was healing and releasing and hard.
I did have a vision of running on the beach with my husband and son and swinging my son around in the air. It was the essence of joy! I know and believe that one day that joy will return, hopefully sooner than I think.
I am not quite sure why I am sharing all this. I guess it was an important part of my journey – back to God and back to people, and I just felt like sharing with someone and I couldn’t think of a better place than mend.org.
All my love,
Karin
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Sharon G
Recognized Contributor
Posts: 256
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| 06/24/2008 2:58 PM |
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Praise the Lord, Karin! I am so happy that you had a refreshing weekend.
Our Lord is a good God and He loves us. |
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Sharon G
Mother to two angels - Drew (S/B 12-07) & Baby G (M/C 09-08) |
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Nele Rogers
Major Participant
Posts: 57
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| 06/26/2008 7:22 AM |
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I am glad you had a breakthrough and that it involved some of the people from your church. They should be a source of solace for you. I pray they will be now.
Nele |
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Lisa Day
Recognized Participant
Posts: 154
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| 06/30/2008 11:16 PM |
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Karin,
I am so happy to hear that you got to experience the healing you did! A retreat like that can be so very powerful! I spent much time trying to come up with the perfect words to help you with your previous question, and I think God is answering you directly! I just got an image of what would be Kathleen looking down on you and saying in the proudest voice "that's my mommy!" I pray that you hold onto what you received and that God sends His angels to help protect your heart and mind from the attack of the enemy.
I have done a lot of forgiving and we had some major changes take place at church, including the man I mentioned, that hurt me so bad, leaving the church. Funny thing is that he lives on our street and I have forgiven him in my heart and our kids play together anyway. Life is strange and always changing, that is for sure!
I pray you are well and I pray you know how special you really are (God is speaking that into my heart right now!)
Lisa |
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Karin Knapp
Recognized Participant
Posts: 132
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| 07/01/2008 2:02 AM |
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Lisa, thanks for the encouraging words! They brought happy tears to my eyes. Thank you so much!
Love and God bless,
Karin |
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Karin Knapp
Recognized Participant
Posts: 132
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| 09/08/2008 1:59 AM |
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It has been a bit quiet lately. I wonder how everyone is doing?
I myself am struggling a fair bit. I thought that once I passed Kathleen's due date things might get a little better, but I was wrong. Now I just keep imagining what things could have been like, and it hurts more than ever before to see little girls. I am just not coping. I feel as though this pain in my heart is about to kill me. I am tired of being sad, crying daily and feeling like I have no joy whatsoever. Yes, I know I've got lots to be thankful for - I just can't get pass the grief to do so. The other day we were talking to some friends about the difference between joy and happiness - that joy is something we always have because of God in our lives. That joy isn't up one day and down the next, like happiness, but joy can go through seasons to which I stated that I must be going through an iceage. I just don't know what to do.
A girl from church handed me a book called Eternity that she thought would be good for me to read. It is about a girls vision of heaven that she had during a 9 day trance. Anyway, she explains how the angels are taking care of the infants - nurturing them, raising them, educating them. I know that beautiful picture is supposed to bring me comfort but instead it made me really mad. I am supposed to do those things, not an angel! And then of course I also felt extremely guilty and selfish - I should be happy for Kathleen that she is in such a place, but I am not - I want her here with me.
Please pray for me my friends. I really need God's comfort and strength.
In His love,
Karin |
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Sharon G
Recognized Contributor
Posts: 256
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| 09/08/2008 3:27 PM |
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Karin,
I will keep you in prayer always.
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Sharon G
Mother to two angels - Drew (S/B 12-07) & Baby G (M/C 09-08) |
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Nele Rogers
Major Participant
Posts: 57
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| 09/08/2008 6:35 PM |
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Karin,
It's funny that you write today on this forum. I just went to the Dr. today to talk to her about why I haven't gotten pregnant, and I was thinking of MEND.
I haven't been doing well myself lately, I think coming up to and passing my own due date has been harder than I thought it would be. I really thought getting past it would make me feel better but it's just dredged up a lot. In my heart I thought that I would have been pregnant by now. Not that that would make up for losing my baby but just another step to help me move in a more positive direction.
Anyway, went to the ob today. She thinks I am stressed and depressed and put me on an antipressant again. She promises that it wouldn't interfere with getting pregnant or cause any problems with a pregnancy and that I could take it through the first trimester without any problems. She says not to be worried and that 6 months out and no pregnancy isn't a big deal. I guess time will tell.
Karin just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in this.
thoughts with you,
Nele
So we will see. |
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Nele Rogers
Major Participant
Posts: 57
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| 09/08/2008 6:36 PM |
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Karin,
It's funny that you write today on this forum. I just went to the Dr. today to talk to her about why I haven't gotten pregnant, and I was thinking of MEND.
I haven't been doing well myself lately, I think coming up to and passing my own due date has been harder than I thought it would be. I really thought getting past it would make me feel better but it's just dredged up a lot. In my heart I thought that I would have been pregnant by now. Not that that would make up for losing my baby but just another step to help me move in a more positive direction.
Anyway, went to the ob today. She thinks I am stressed and depressed and put me on an antipressant again. She promises that it wouldn't interfere with getting pregnant or cause any problems with a pregnancy and that I could take it through the first trimester without any problems. She says not to be worried and that 6 months out and no pregnancy isn't a big deal. I guess time will tell.
Karin just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in this.
thoughts with you,
Nele
So we will see. |
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Nele Rogers
Major Participant
Posts: 57
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| 09/08/2008 6:36 PM |
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Karin,
It's funny that you write today on this forum. I just went to the Dr. today to talk to her about why I haven't gotten pregnant, and I was thinking of MEND.
I haven't been doing well myself lately, I think coming up to and passing my own due date has been harder than I thought it would be. I really thought getting past it would make me feel better but it's just dredged up a lot. In my heart I thought that I would have been pregnant by now. Not that that would make up for losing my baby but just another step to help me move in a more positive direction.
Anyway, went to the ob today. She thinks I am stressed and depressed and put me on an antipressant again. She promises that it wouldn't interfere with getting pregnant or cause any problems with a pregnancy and that I could take it through the first trimester without any problems. She says not to be worried and that 6 months out and no pregnancy isn't a big deal. I guess time will tell.
Karin just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in this.
thoughts with you,
Nele
So we will see. |
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